Last week, our esteemed colleague Brett David Roberts, Esq. ran a piece pitting this summer’s Olympic Men’s Basketball team against the damn-near mythical ’92 edition, the one we’ve known from its inception as the Dream Team.  He stacked the two teams against each other position by position and went looking for the edges.

Brett saw a distinct advantage for ’92 at the center position, where Patrick Ewing and David Robinson would more or less have their way with defensive specialist Tyson Chandler, 19-year-old Anthony Davis, and Kevin Love, who is not really a center.

At forward, Charles Barkley would prove something of a matchup nightmare for the likes of Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Durant, and LeBron James, dynamic scorers who could be handled defensively by Scottie Pippen and Karl Malone.

At guard, the sheer greatness of Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson would prove overwhelming for Kobe Bryant, who could only hope to approach their level of play, ultimately falling just short.  James Harden, Russell Westbrook, and Chris Paul would kind of wash out with Clyde Drexler and John Stockton.

Roberts concluded that “the teams just don’t stack up.”

The ’92 squad, “the greatest team ever assembled in sports, all sports” was “superior in all aspects” to the current model.  He’s not alone in his thinking.  Eighty-six percent of the more than 180,000 votes cast in a recent ESPN poll had the Dream Team over Team ’12 in a seven-game series, with 73 percent imagining victory in six games or less.

Before we get to our take on the matter, it might be worth trying to parse some of the popular thinking in regards to the Dream Team; to try to understand what the mind’s eye sees when that wonderfully musical phrase is uttered.

The Thinking

For starters, there’s the ridiculously impressive résumé.  Eleven Hall of Famers.  Ten of the “50 Greatest Players in NBA History.”  The league’s all-time leader in assists and steals.  Numbers two and three in points scored.  The two greatest players of the 1980’s.  The single greatest of all time.  And the accolades, my God, the accolades!

• 15 MVP awards
• 56 All-NBA First Team selections
• 23 Championship rings
• 11 Finals MVP awards
• 117 All-Star Game selections
• 11 All-Star Game MVP awards
• 24 All-Defensive First Team selections
• 2 Defensive Player of the Year awards
• 4 Rookie of the Year awards

The Dream Team was more than that very impressive list of accomplishments, of course.  They were an ideal, a manifestation of greatness itself.  The thing to remember about ideals is, once they’re set, they tend to stay set.  They don’t shift to accommodate progress; they become the measurement of it.

We recall an episode of The B.S. Report from October of 2009 in which, during a discussion on the Beatles, Chuck Klosterman talked about the idea of absolute greatness and what happens when we collectively assign it:

You kind of have to look at rock bands the same way you look at Presidents.  It doesn’t matter how long America exists.  When people talk about the greatest Presidents – Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson – there’s a handful of people that are always going to be in that top-five category because they sort of define what a successful President is or the values and the criteria of what makes a good President.

The Beatles, more than any other band, set [those] criteria.  There can’t be a future band who is better at being a group than the Beatles were because all other groups are really doing is fulfilling the criteria that they made.

We don’t normally get into trolling the comment section for fodder, but this nugget from trada9404 in response to a July 12 piece from TrueHoop sums up what we think people think about when they think about the ’92 v. ’12 debate:

in 2006, lebron, wade, melo, dwight howard, bosh and cp3 all lost to greece, and several other games were very close; also, they almost lost to spain if it wasn’t for kobe’s hero ball at the end bailing them out – so how could these things happen if it is all about athleticism? clearly, basketball smarts and TEAM skill has something to do with it. how could these guys that obviously lack these things and lost to Greece, all of a sudden beat MJ and company? gimme a break.. it just doesn’t make any sense

Apparently, trada has had some experience travelling under suspended animation like the crew of the Nostromo as, to him, six years’-worth of growth counts as a “sudden” change.

Funky definitions aside, what he says ties in with Klosterman’s idea.  Notice that he doesn’t explain how or why the Dream Team would win a seven-game series against the 2012 model.  Instead, he rolls out reasons why 2012 is the inferior team, ways in which it doesn’t fit the criteria for absolute greatness established two decades ago.  None of these reasons, by the way, have anything to do with matchup advantages or basic basketball skills.

Most tellingly, trada concludes his comment by stating that the idea of “these guys” who “lost to Greece” beating the Michael Jordan-led ’92 group simply “doesn’t make any sense.”

It just doesn’t make any sense.  If the Dream Team were the very definition of greatness – “the greatest team ever assembled in sports, all sports” – well, how could anything ever top that?

The Sentiment

The most important factor shaping this discussion, perhaps, is the matter of how we feel about the Dream Team; what they mean to us.  Their formation was certainly the most culturally significant basketball occurrence – perhaps the most culturally significant sporting occurrence – of the past 25 years.  Following the “Golden Era” of the mid-to-late 80’s, the establishment of Michael Jordan as the most dominating player in the game, coupled with the emblazoning of his high-flying silhouette into an iconic logo and his emergence as a near-omnipresent media figure, had propelled basketball to all-time highs in popularity, both nationally and abroad.  The Dream Team was a coronation of sorts, a celebration of the NBA’s still-ascendant rise into sport superpower status.

This collection of players captured our imaginations, not through the beauty of their play during the Olympic tournament – they won their games by an average margin of 43 points, which did not exactly make for compelling viewing – but through the simple fact of their existence.  The world hadn’t seen anyone like Michael Jordan since the days of Babe Ruth, which meant that most living people hadn’t ever seen anyone like Michael Jordan with their own eyes.  Beyond just Jordan, no one had ever seen such elite talent gathered onto one team before, certainly not outside of an exhibition setting à la the All-Star Game.

For a summer, we were united in our awe of them and, this being the Olympics and all, our pride in them.  We embraced them rapturously, without cynicism.

Our personal lasting memory of the Dream Team is from the Gold Medal Game against Croatia, which we didn’t actually see because we were spending our afternoon in the left field stands at Yankee Stadium, watching the Red Sox take the third of a four-game series which they would ultimately split (Roger Clemens, 8.1 IP, 4 K, 6 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 0 BB; Jack Clark, 1-4 with a 9^th-inning homer; Papa K, one screaming foul ball snagged during batting practice).  We sat with our family in the dripping center of that awful monument to all that is Ungood, surrounded by vile, hairy-knuckled New Yorkers, their mouths twisted into hideous asshole’s leers, their voices thick with cruel boast and ignorance.  We sat timidly, fearing reprisal should we make our allegiance known.  Though neither team was very good at the time – both were below .500 and more than 10 games out – fan relations were just as venomous as they always had been, and probably always will be.

At some point in the game, after a handful of beery arguments had been observed in various pockets of the stands, a particularly loudmouthed Yankee fan sitting in our section returned from the concessions, a plastic cup of amber hate fuel clutched in each of his violence-wreaking fists.  As he sidled into his row, he made an utterly logic-defying announcement: “the Dream Team’s getting beat.”

Everyone in earshot – Yankees and Red Sox fans alike – snapped to his attention.

“What?” we cried incredulously.

As it turned out, it was early in the first quarter and the U.S. trailed by only a handful of points (they would go on to win by 32).

For a brief moment, though, we were united by the experience we had all been sharing before our paths had crossed on this Saturday in August.  The news acted as a momentary cease-fire; our mutual animosity had been dissolved by our common interest in what was unfolding an ocean away.

Recounting all of this is our overlong way of saying that the Dream Team was special.  They were special in a way that we can’t imagine another team being ever again.  They were a new idea, and ideas can only be new once.  Any future run is just a retread.  We can refine our execution of the idea through repetition, but never recreate the same spark and magic thrust off by the original version.

Furthermore, they existed in a time when athletes were still revered beyond their athletic achievements.  Through round-the-clock media coverage, we’ve gotten too close to their humanity to regard them as heroic.  We still admire their feats, but take more delight than ever in over-analysis, petty competitive comparison, and the skewering of personality than ever before.  It’s the nature of entertainment in a post-TMZ culture.

Think about Michael Jordan:  Think of what we know about him now relative to what we knew about him then.  During his playing days, he was entirely his very affable public persona.  His now-infamous, near-sociopathic competitive nature was hardly commented on.  We simply loved him for his prowess, his gracefulness, his guts, his dazzling athleticism, his 30 points a night every night, his winning smile, his awesome sneakers, and probably ProStars too.

Imagine if Michael Jordan’s career was taking place right now.  Imagine how people would respond to the news that he had punched Steve Kerr in the face during practice.

How thoroughly would this news dominate our sports media?  How long would it be before the excessive coverage triggered a discussion on the racial implications of the event?

A black man punching a white man in practice and the media whipping into a frenzy over it?  A living expression of the still-unresolved racial bias that pervades our society, no doubt.

Remember when LeBron walked off the court after the Cavs lost to the Orlando Magic in the 2009 Eastern Conference Finals without shaking hands with his opponents?  Remember how “controversial” LeBron’s “brazenly unsportsmanlike” conduct was?  How would we feel about Michael yelling out “Thunder Dan Majerle my f***ing ass!” after defeating the Phoenix Suns in the 1993 NBA Finals?  Taunting your opponent as you crush their throat on the biggest stage available?  What sort of an example would that be for the kids?

Of course, great care and savvy in the shaping of his persona was a key element to Michael Jordan’s success, so this sort of stuff probably doesn’t happen in 2012.  But we can also think about what our perception of his career might be as it played out.  How much of our discussion on Jordan would unfold along the lines of, “Magic won his first title in his rookie season; his first of five.  It took Michael seven years to win his first.  We can’t start to talk about Michael in Magic’s class until he’s won five.”

When the Dream Team came together, our collective consciousness seemed more amenable to the propping-up of public figures than it does today, when we seem more inclined toward laughing at and knocking down.  More than any comparison of athletic accomplishments or eyeballing of positional matchups, this shift of perception skews public feeling to such lopsided support of the ’92 crew.

The Series

Well, maybe it does.  Perhaps we’re taking this all a little too seriously.  It’s just a fun, silly question.  Who would win in a seven-game series: the stars of the past or the stars of today?  We’ll try to answer it the best way we know how: by building the most plausible scenario out of the available facts and then filling in the blanks with numbers.

So, obviously, a time machine is involved.  We imagine that the Dream Team would get home court advantage; they were the more accomplished of the two, had won the most titles, probably had the higher collective regular season winning percentage (we’re not taking the time to look that up).  With home court, they would surely get the benefit of playing under home (1992) rules, i.e. hand-checking is allowed.

Here are the two teams’ rosters:

Here’s a Fun Fact for you: if you combined each team into one giant super-player and did their pre-game introductions “Get in the Ring”-style, the Dream Team would stand at 80 feet, one inch tall and weigh 2,695 pounds, against Team ’12′s 78 feet, nine inches and 2,646 pounds.

Now, over a seven-game series, both teams would be shortened to eight- or nine-man rotations.  The Dream Team’s rotation is the easiest to surmise: Larry Bird’s mangled, 35-year-old back led to his retirement from basketball immediately following his Olympic experience, John Stockton had suffered an “undisplaced fracture of the right fibula” during the qualifying tournament which limited him to only brief appearances in four of the eight tournament games, and Christian Laettner was, well, Christian Laettner.  Those three would spend most of series waving towels.

2012 is a tougher read.  There’s no doubt that rookie Anthony Davis would be consigned to the twelfth seat on the bench.  Who would join him?  We’re going to guess Russell Westbrook and James Harden, for the simple fact of their inexperience relative to Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Kobe Bryant.

Now that we have our nines, how do we determine the series’ outcome?  In the other assessments that we’ve read, people seem to most frequently evoke the size advantage provided by Patrick Ewing and David Robinson as a guarantee on Dream Team victory, or the superior athleticism provided by LeBron James, Kevin Durant, and Carmelo Anthony on the wings giving 2012 the edge.

Singling out advantages and imagining outcomes that would revolve around them is a little too nebulous for us.  These sorts of things can be game-planned against and counteracted.  Instead, we prefer to look at the track records, and we’re not talking about the résumés.  We can’t, in good conscience, let the full scope of the Dream Team’s accolades sway our thinking when Team ‘12 is still in the process – in the cases of players like Durant, Davis, Harden, Westbrook, and Love, very early in the process – of writing its own story.  It would sort of be like listening to a batch of Deerhunter demos and dismissing them with a flick of the wrist, saying “eh, Loveless is just way better.”

Instead, we look to the relevant on-court statistical production.  As there’s nothing more relevant than recent history, we compiled the per-36-minute numbers for each member of our nine-man rotations from the two seasons preceding their Olympic tournaments (2010-’11 and 2011-’12; 1990-’91 and 1991-’92).  Then we ran about the simplest analysis we could come up with: we averaged everything out, reducing each team to a single, representative super-player, each standing nearly 80 feet tall and weighing more than 2,600 pounds, no doubt.

Before we get to the results, we should go over the matter of Magic Johnson.  As you likely know, Magic had retired prior to the start of the ’91-’92 season.  By the time of the Dream Team’s first inter-squad scrimmages, he had not played professionally – apart from in the ’92 All-Star Game – for seven months.  Furthermore, knee trouble consigned him to the bench for two of the eight tournament games and laid a tamp on his minutes during the six that he played in.

Needing to account for this somehow in our statistics, we decided that August ’92 Magic was two-thirds the Magic he had been at the end of the ’91 season.  For the purposes of preparing our super-player, we reduced his counting numbers by 33 percent and plugged the results into the blank space where his ’92 numbers would have been.  Was our deduction too harsh?  Not harsh enough?  Who can say?  None of this is real, you know.  We wouldn’t get too worked up about it.

The following table shows the career per-36 numbers for both super-players, the numbers from the two seasons preceding the Olympics, and the two-year per-36 averages.  The “winning” statistics are highlighted:

Overall, the Dream Team was the more productive group/super-player/whatever.  They enjoy decent-sized advantages in rebounds, steals, blocked shots, and points-per-36.  Their most glaring advantage is in the rate at which they put the ball in the basket.  Every player in our nine-man Dream rotation, aside from Magic and Clyde Drexler, shot better than 50 percent from the floor during our two-year sample, with Charles Barkley’s mark of 56.3 percent leading the way.  For Team ’12, only LeBron James (52.1 percent) and Tyson Chandler (66.7 percent off an average of 6.7 shot attempts per 36) connected on half their shots or better.

Here’s another Fun Fact for you: only seven teams in NBA history have connected on at least 52.1 percent of their shots over the course of a season.  They were the Los Angeles Lakers in 1979-’80 (won the Title) and then in each season from 1981-’82 through 1985-’86 (won two Titles, lost in the Finals twice, lost in the Conference Finals once), and the Boston Celtics in 1987-’88 (lost in the Finals).  Golden Era, indeed.

The one area where Team ’12 enjoys a distinct advantage is from beyond the arc.  With Bird (39.8 3FG%) and Stockton (39.5) on ice, the Dream Team are without their two best distance shooters (Drexler and Chris Mullin are next up at 33.8 and 33.3).  For today’s group, Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Durant, Andre Iguodala, Kevin Love, and Chris Paul have all shot better than 35 percent from downtown over the past two years.

The Conclusion

When we set out to write this, our intent was to take the contrary opinion and cast our vote for Team ’12.  After all, the past is dead, man, it’s gone, it’s buried.  The future is now, and if you can’t get with it, pal, well good luck living out the rest of your days as that sad, useless old man attempting to fend off his ever-growing irrelevance through the desperate clutching-onto of the ghosts of his youth; that pitiably out-of-touch bag of graveyard dirt too terrified of change to give himself over to the one true revitalizing force: mighty progress.

But, after considering the data, we decided no-can-do: Dream Team in Six.

]]> http://hardwoodhoudini.com/2012/07/16/not-this-again-the-dream-team-vs-the-2012-olympic-squad/feed/ 0 http://hardwoodhoudini.com/2012/07/15/1992-dream-team-v-s-2012-dream-team/ http://hardwoodhoudini.com/2012/07/15/1992-dream-team-v-s-2012-dream-team/#comments Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:42:47 +0000 Andrew Silva http://hardwoodhoudini.com/?p=5940 Sports creates a constant stream of questions, analysis, and debate. Is Tim Tebow a good quarterback? Is LeBron clutch or not? Now the latest installment involves the 1992 Dream Team vs. the 2012 Olympic squad. Fans love to make comparisons, and fuel was added to the fire with Kobe Bryant claiming this current roster would beat perhaps the greatest [...]

1992 Dream Team VS. 2012 “Dream Team” - Hardwood Houdini - Hardwood Houdini - A Boston Celtics Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and More

Sports creates a constant stream of questions, analysis, and debate. Is Tim Tebow a good quarterback? Is LeBron clutch or not? Now the latest installment involves the 1992 Dream Team vs. the 2012 Olympic squad. Fans love to make comparisons, and fuel was added to the fire with Kobe Bryant claiming this current roster would beat perhaps the greatest assembly of basketball players ever.

Logically many people immediately associate the 1992 team with Michael Jordan, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. Those three arguably compose a third of the top five players in the game’s history. So any comparison to that team seems blasphemous, but is it really that far-fetched to believe the current version of Team USA could win? Let’s break this fantasy match-up down.

At point guard the 1992 team trots out two Hall-of-Famers in Magic Johnson and John Stockton. They are both great players, but don’t forget that Johnson was just coming back from his HIV retirement. Stockton is one of the greatest passers the game has seen, but how would he defend today’s current crop of athlete.

Russel Westbrook, Deron Williams and Chris Paul all have an advantage with their speed and quickness. The 2012 team would be smart to press both Stockton and Johnson full court, making them work just to bring the ball up. While Johnson’s height does neutralize some of the advantage, it’s hard to ignore that the 2012 team’s point guards create a mismatch with their athletic ability.

Point Guard advantage: 2012

Moving on to the two guards, we have the greatest to ever play the game. Jordan himself makes this an advantage for the original Dream Team. Clyde Drexler also provides depth to the 1992 roster behind Jordan. The current roster does boast this new generation’s best player in Kobe Bryant, and James Harden is talented. There is no doubt here though that Jordan and Drexler trump the Bryant and Harden combination.

Shooting Guard advantage: 1992

Small forward may be the most intriguing match-up between these two teams. The 2012 Olympic squad has the most athletic player on either roster with LeBron James. His late game mentality can be questioned, but in terms of physical ability, he is as good as there has ever been. The new Finals MVP is joined by scoring machines Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant. Don’t under estimate Anthony and Durant’s ability to get hot for a quarter and carry the scoring load. Andre Iguodala is also a capable defensive body.

The Dream Team would battle against that quartet of forwards with a trio consisting of Bird, Chris Mullen and Scottie Pippen. Bird was on his last legs during the Barcelona Olympics, and only played in two of the six games on their eventual path to a Gold Medal. Mullen was a dead eye shooter and Pippen was a great defensive player, but he can’t cover Anthony, Durant and James at the same time.

Small Forward advantage: 2012

Once in the post is where the 1992 team starts to exploit their biggest advantage. At power forward Charles Barkley and Karl Malone provide brute strength that would bully the 2012 team. Christian Laettner would basically be an after thought, and it would be unlikely he sees the court. The 2012 roster has Kevin Love and Anthony Davis, both good players, but Malone and Barkley are grown men against children with this match-up.

Power Forward advantage: 1992

Finally the center spot doesn’t give 2012 supporters much relief. Two of the greatest five men ever in David Robinson and Patrick Ewing would have a field day against the lone 2012 center, Tyson Chandler. Last season’s Defensive Player of the Year would get pounded on, as the Dream Team would be smart enough to feed the post on nearly every offensive possession.

Center advantage: 1992

So in case you weren’t counting, the original Dream Team seems to have the upper hand at three positions. So the 1992 roster definitely wins, right? Not necessarily. Positions are obviously interchangeable and this game would come down to who imposes their will on the other.

If the current Olympic roster pressed full court and forced a fast paced tempo they could create serious problems for the 1992 point guards. On the other hand if Stockton and Johnson handle the pressure, they would find themselves with a front court just itching to get the ball, and power in an easy two points.

It surely would be an interesting match-up. There would be a lot of pride on the line, and Pippen’s claim that his team beats the present day squad by 25 would make for some bulletin board material. As a betting man I’d jump all over a 25-point spread if Pippen offered it to me (and something tells me Jordan would have no problem throwing some money around gambling).

For now though this Dream Team vs. “Dream Team” fantasy match-up will simply have to remain a dream.

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July 7, 2012; Las Vegas, NV, USA; The 2012 USA National Basketball team for the 2012 Olympics is presented following a press conference at the Wynn Las Vegas Resort. Mandatory Credit: Gary A. Vasquez-US PRESSWIRE

In the aftermath of a wonderful Dream Team documentary, the nation has, once again, developed an undeniable love for the sport of basketball. The past success of the Dream Team’s success being brought to a documentary showcases their triumph in a way that the current generation has never seen.

Before the documentary, they just knew that there were 11 Hall of Famers and Christian Laettner was on the squad. They didn’t know about the dynamic of the team and how well they meshed together. They didn’t know about the tension between Isiah Thomas and the rest of the NBA nor the relationship that Chuck Daly and Michael Jordan were supposed to not have that they ended up having anyway. Hell, most of them probably didn’t know about Chuck Daly for that matter.

In recent news, because of the spark that this documentary has created, the question has been posed of whether or not the current team of Olympians could beat the Dream Team. It was originally stated by Kobe Bryant that the current team could beat the 1992 team. Today, Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley responded to Bryant by saying that they have no shot really.

Of course, those are both responses that should be expected by the public. Neither side has any incentive so say that the opponent is better than the other and both sides have fierce competitors. When talking about Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, winning is their nature. Losing is something that is hated and shunned upon so they’ll never admit that anything will defeat them.

I’m here to pose the question, though, is Kobe right? Can they defeat the Dream Team?

The first thing that we should do is compare the rosters.

The 1992 “Dream Team”

Charles Barkely, PF
Patrick Ewing, C
David Robinson, C
Magic Johnson, PG
Michael Jordan, SG
Scottie Pippen, SF
Chris Mullin, SF
Christian Laettner, PF
John Stockton, PG
Karl Malone, PF
Clyde Drexler, SG
Larry Bird, SF

The 2012 Team

LeBron James, SF
Kobe Bryant, SG
Tyson Chandler, C
Andre Iguodola, SF
Chris Paul, PG
Deron Williams, PG
Russell Westbrook, PG
Kevin Durant, SF
Blake Griffin(possibly), PF
Anthony Davis(possibly), PF
Kevin Love, PF
James Harden, SG
Carmelo Anthony, SF

Both squads are stacked, no doubt. Each side has mismatches that could counter the other.

For the 2012 squad, the point guard play outmatches that of the 1992 squad. Magic Johnson was way passed his prime at this point in his career. This is when he was coming off of his hiatus from basketball because of HIV and he was never a monster defensively. He’s 34 at this point and is best on the offensive end. I don’t think he compares to Chris Paul or Deron Williams at that moment.

John Stockton was only 30 at the time and was okay defensively. He was never a slouch, but barely anyone can check Paul or Williams. I think Stockton would be their best bet but I’m not sold that he would be able to.

The mismatch that I think takes the cake is the 1992 bigs against the 2012 bigs. During the Golden Age of Basketball, it was all about the bigs and Michael Jordan. From Patrick Ewing all the way down to Charles Barkley, every single big on that team had a low post game. The same can’t be said for any of the bigs on the 2012 roster. Also, the only defensive big that the 2012 roster really features is Tyson Chandler. If Anthony Davis does end up being on the team because of Blake Griffin’s recent injury, I know for a fact that he still wouldn’t be able to handle the likes of Ewing, Malone, Robinson, or Barkley in the post. Let alone Larry Bird.

Defensively, all of the bigs from 1992 aside from Barkley were excellent. We’re talking Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, and Karl Malone. These guys were known to strike fear into anyone who came into the paint. Ewing more than the others. I think that’s what the 2012 team will be predicated off of–if so they play right into the 1992 team’s hands.

Also, you’d have to factor in the best player on each team. For the dream team, its Michael Jordan of course. For the 2012 team its LeBron James. They’re both in their respective primes at this point in time, but 1992 Jordan would be better than 2012 LeBron James. He averaged approximately 30 points, 6 assists and 6 rebounds. LeBron’s numbers were great, but they just aren’t as good.

I think that Kobe has somewhat of a point–they would be able to hold their own against the Dream Team for a while. But once you get down to it, I think the Dream Team is better defensively and in the low post which is a key area in any basketball game that you play.

In a best of seven series, they may be able to win one game. One close one. But I think that Kobe is dreaming here–1992 was apart of the greatest era in basketball for a reason.